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tv   Closing Bell With Maria Bartiromo  CNBC  December 11, 2012 4:00pm-5:00pm EST

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outperformed meaning they are voting for a resolution. do you still think we'll get one? >> absolutely. that's what the tape is telling us. it's going to happen, and if there ice any whiff of disappointments, you get that downtick. learn from nancy pelosi. the richest person in congress. doesn't speak during market hours. >> thank you very much. going to the close of a gain of 80 points and our old friend from "power lunch" days, chuck lovelle ringing the closing pebble and much more now from washington with maria bartiromo on the "closing bell." >> it's 4:00 on wall street. do you know where your money is? hi, everybody. welcome back to "closing bell." i'm maria bartiromo coming to you live from the white house. stocks rallying and closing off the best levels of the session after senate majority leader harry reid warned it will be tough to reach a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff before christmas. we all note deadline, december
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31. take a look at how we're finishing the day. the dow jones industrial average up about 80 points today. it was higher, much higher than 100 points earlier today, up two-thirds of 1%. volume on the light side this afternoon. nasdaq composite picked it up. technology up better than 1%. s&p 500 also on the upswing. markets maintaining steady gains all day long. david kudlow and bob pisani and barbara from the street. welcome to all of you. what about coming off the best levels? >> hitting search-week highs. 13,245 is where we ended the night of election and waiting for it to settle out. 13,248, so we are exactly where we were when the elections closed. i think the important thing is as long as there is some
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indication that they are talking the markets are holding up very well. i think the concern is after a deal happens, i think we'll have it, what will happen after, that and a lot of people are worried now that austerity is coming. that's a negative for stocks >> you make a great point, bob. david, let me put that to you because it doesn't feel like this market is expecting no deal. if we go into year end and don't have a deal, how big of a disappointment will we seek from the markets? >> i think we got a taste of that, how it ends up shaping up to how the market will react. before, that we got a taste today with hair reid and saw the markets sell off 25 points pretty quick. as we head closer to christmas or the end of the year, closer to the brink, that could be 150 or 250 points so we've got some volatility ahead of us, and if they don't reach a deal, a significant selloff for the market. >> debra, what do you think in terms of market sentiment if no
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deal happens by year end? >> it's interesting, if we do go over the cliff, and some say let's go over the cliff. all these complaints about government spending too much, so let's just take it for what it's worth, go over the cliff and cut out that government spending, and i find it interesting that a lot of the same people that want the government to cut back on spending kind of don't want it because of the markets, so you can't really have your cake and eat it, too. if we do go over the cliff there will be pullback in the market. >> what's the strategy though? what's the strategy? let's put aside speculation of going over or not going over. what's the strategy going into year end? where do you want exposure in terms of equities? >> definitely want to be long. i certainly wouldn't want to go short because you don't want to go into this uncertainty making decisions on something you don't know is going to happen. you just don't know what the taxes are or what's going to come about, so i really wouldn't make my decisions based on an
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unknown. i would pick steady solid names and stick with them and go long. >> but we know taxes are probably going to go high, right? david, do i want to sell my winners here knowing that the capital gains at 15% is going to be history next year? >> i think we're seeing a lot of that. i think we're seeing the reverse of tax laws harvesting the end of the year, people capturing gains this year when that tax will be low, but as far as your question on investments going into year end, you know, a combination of those high growth sectors, tech. home billers along with high-yielding areas, not high dividend-paying common stocks where qualified dividends one the risk of a much higher tax rate. emerging market reits. >> bob pisani, where was the leadership today? >> defense stocks, defense index
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hit an historic high and with all the talk of skwegsration and certainly on defense spending you would think they would be down. another sign that the markets are optimistic things will work out. airlines were up today. very positive comments on capacity and business coming back after sandy, so there's two groups that held up and, of course, apple up as well. >> interesting to see the defense stocks act that way, bob, even though we're expecting layoffs in the sector. >> yeah. this is what's remarkable to me. overall you would think orders, like future orders, which is what defense spending -- defense stocks trade on would be noticeable to the downside and there's ate lot of worry. not underperforming the market. since the beginning of the deekz december, they have been outperforming. >> go ahead, debra. >> been at the tax rates before and it wasn't like nobody jumped out of market. stocks did outperform at market. >> but that was a very different time, wasn't it?
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we were on the east internet. you had dotcoms soaring and money moving into technology right before the year 2000. we had a balanced budget. in fact, a surplus under president clinton. very different economic moment. >> right, but you can still argue that you also have another internet boom going on with the mobile boom. >> i think the big thing here is the overall market continues to hold up very, very well. did you hear harry reid? the senate majority leader says i don't think we'll get a deal by christmas. would you think that's a real negative for the market. only lost 25 or 30 points in the dow on that. that surprised me. >> it held up pretty good. >> thanks, everybody. >> final word, david. >> as the debate goes on, when those statements come later in the year and closer to christmas or to new years, it will have a much larger impact on the market. >> i'm sure it will. i agree with you. the other story, tensions
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mounting in michigan as union workers are protesting a bitterly distributed right-to-work bill. nbc's rob mott now with the details. >> reporter: good day to you from the michigan state capital where we saw a lot of protesters out here protesting two measures that the house passed today that would bar unions from forcing people to join those unions as a condition of employment. sometime tomorrow governor rick schneider is expected to sign them into law make michigan the 24th right-to-work state in the country, joining a lot of others where the gop has majority in the state legislatures. now, a lot of these workers today were dismayed at the timing of all of this. this is taking place during a lame duck session of the legislature when a new body is being sworn in here, and in a month's time it's going to have a few more democrats than we saw here today, so when i sat down with the governor this afternoon i asked him why not delay this just a little bit longer, let a new body come in and give workers and people around the state of michigan more opportunity to debate this issue.
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he says it was not going to go away, that it doesn't make any sense to allow this debate to continue, that he support collective bargaining. he does not believe this is a collective bargaining issue with you it's about fairness. every worker in this state should have a right to choose whether to join a union as being forced to do so. a lot of workers on the ground who protested say they believe it's unfair for non-members who don't way into the unions obviously to benefit from generations of hard work that unions have put forward and a lot of industries around the state, particularly the auto industry, and a lot of these folks have supported democratic candidates over time, and they are now perhaps, as soon as tomorrow, going to now work in a right-to-work state. they believe that that changes unions power going forward, and as one man mentioned to me, he said this is a nail into the coverage as we know it for unions. maria, back to you. >> wow, ron mott, thanks very much for the latest there. a lot more ahead in the
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special "mission critical, right above d.c." we're back with former federal reserve chairman alan greenspan who will sit down with me for an interview only on this network. he's partly to blame for the looming fiscal cliff crisis and the white house's plan for another economic stimulus and why is roger at man optimistic that republicans and democrats can come together and reach a deal in avoiding going over the fiscal cliff. >> reporter: and why are billionaire investors warren buffett and george soros calling on congress to raise the wealth tax. we'll have that story. stay with us. even those held elsewhere, giving her the confidence to pursue all her goals. when you want a financial advisor who sees the whole picture, turn to us. wells fargo advisors.
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>> time is running out. >> right now the american people have to be scratching their heads when is the president going to get serious? >> washington remains at odds. >> that is a bad strategy for america. it's a bad strategy for your businesses, and it is not a game that i will play. >> but the fiscal cliff still looms. cnbc has called on lawmakers to rise would have gridlock and reach a deal. now, we're beating down their doors. live from our nation's capital,
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this is a cnbc special report, "mission critical, rise above d.c." >> well, the stock market riding the ups and doups of the fiscal cliff negotiations. roger altman is former treasury official under president clinton. he says he's optimistic that a deal is coming. the question, of course, is when. joining me from new york is roger altman. always nice to have you on the program. let welcome back. >> hi, how are you? >> you think a chance of getting a deal will increase and harry reid says he's pessimistic that had t will get done before christmas. what do you think? >> the financial markets themselves are becoming more optimistic, and i think that's a strong signal. second, i think the atmospherics, and senator reid's statement is just part of that, are suggesting that there's some
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movement and some progress, and thirdly, i'm particularly impressed with what the business community has been doing. it's really engaged and rolled its sleeves up and got involved in this. you might have seen the statement about an hour ago that the business roundtable released, and the business community wants a solution. they want a balanced solution and increasing towards the president's approach. >> what kind of a deal would you expect from both sides? >> i think it's going to be, first, a pretty good deal on size. one of the most important things here is we actually take a big bite out of the spending and it has to be balanced between spending cuts and revenue increases. i don't think there's a deal if there's only one of those two
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halves, and we need it now. yes, it may happen -- it may be implemented in two phases, that's inevitable, and, sure, it may happen at the last minute. that's the way things so often do in washington, especially in crises or semi-crises but i think it's a good size. >> what happens if we go over the cliff? >> a lot of misconceptions about this. i'll do my best to straighten out one or two of them. there's no scenario at all, none, whereby the united states goes over the cliff and stays over the cliff, and there's no scenario of that because the financial markets would not tolerate it. if we -- if we're approaching the cliff two days, four days, five days out and there's a sense that the negotiations are
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stuck. i think the equity markets would weaken. and just like we saw in 2008 on reaction to the first tarp. senate voted it and vote it had through. the house came back in to session and voted it through after first failing. we won't go over the cliff and stay there. it won't be a blow to the u.s. economy at all, in my judgment, and the economy is going to move on through this. >> can you invest in the markets today without considering the fiscal cliff? >> yes. >> is there a strategy to go
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forward. >> i just tried to ortic lays and saying to yourself it won't ind mine the economy so i'm going to v.on the fundamentals, growth, competitiveness and earnings and so forth depending on the situation. i think investors would be wise to look beyond the fiscal cliff because all the fears it's tomorrow doing the economy are misplaced. >> most economists have said if we go into 2013 without a deal we'll go into recession. >> we might have into 2013 for three days or knife days or a week before there's a deal. that's about it. the pressure from financial markets will be too great so the scenario that you just referred
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to to, we go over the cliff, had and the economy sinks. i want to emphasize that cannot happen. >> let me move on to another topic. timothy geithner has said he's not returning for another four years. your name has been mentioned as a replacement. >> of course they are not going to make any changes during that team during the pennedsy of all of this. the president has lots of good choices for whatever comes next. i very much doubt that i'll be part of that but they are in good shape and they don't have anything to do about this. do youly jack lew would be a good treasury secretary. fiscal issues will continue to
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be and the for foernt even after after agreement on the cliff and the president knows and works well with him so he has tonight most logical choice. >> roger, as always, good to talk with you. >> my pleasure, maria. >> some of the naig nation's wealthiest and well known citizens are calling on congress to increase the estate tax to fix the debt of the country. more now on that angle. >> thanks, maria. estate tax is the next big battleground in congress. today it was urged that they pay a stronger estate tax. they are asking that the estate tax be raised to 45% and to hit escates valued at 2 million or more and want the tax to be graduated so richer families, they would pay more than 45%. they say the tax code promotes democracy by sloegt
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concentration of wealth and power. this is steeper than even president obama's proposal. obama, of course, wants the 45% rate but only applied to estates valued at 3.5 million or more. any cliff deal will have to include the estate tax, and that fight is just beginning. maria? >> amazing, another big fight over the estate tax. >> starting right now so a lot to look forward to. >> robert frank with the latest there. breaking news on mollycorp. over to you, brian. >> i followed this rare earth company for a couple of years and mark smith, the ceo and face of the company, no longer the ceo. i can tell you sources tell me, kind of a board decision as they say they are growing to an operational company. the company's also been investigated by the s.e.c.
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i'm ted the s.e.c. investigation does not have anything to do with this muff but a hi high-flyers. getting red pretty hard right now. still above $10. looked at his insider buying and selling. sold a lot last year and was in the process of buying some some of the shares this year. mark smith no longer the ceo and face of mcp. back to you. >> what a move in the extend hours. brian, thanks very much. brian schactman, fiscal cliff talk. >> and form er fed chair alan greenspan is here and dow component dupont, is it holding back on investing and hiring because of the fiscal cliff? we'll speak to the boss ellen
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welcome back. breaking news. let's get to jackie d'angelis on dupont. >> announcing a share buyback program and the company updating its guidance for 202012 on the previous guidance, the high end of the range of $3.25 to $3.30
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in the earnings per share. the company also announced its outlooks in earnings to growth and low to mid-single digits. growth in the low single digits. back over to you. >> what a move in that stock, 2.25% higher on the extended hours by dupont. we'll be speaking with the ceo-of-can you pont momentarily. ceo ellen coleman is here to talk with me about the fiscal cliff and the stock buyback and growth expectations for 2013. we're asking for solutions to the fiscal cliff. joining me now is alan greenspan, former federal reserve chairman and now with greenspan associates. nice to have you back on the program. >> nice to be here. >> thanks so much for joining us. you have said there's no painless solution to the fiscal cliff here. what do you think the best possible outcome could be? >> the best possible outcome as far as i can see is to take something like simpso/bowles
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that came out originally and get the issue resolved. i've never seen anything like this. >> you've been around a long time and seen lots of parties fight. >> they always come to go. the difference now is that -- not that there are more differences than unusual. if you go back, there's a lot of data that suggests this is not unusual. what is unusual is the republicans don't speak to the democrats and vice versa? back then, i mean, not that far. >> they went to dipper and went to lunch and discussed issues. >> when i was in the white house, tip o'neill and jerry ford used to be at each other's throat from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. at 6:00 p.m. tip would come over and have a bourbon with jerry, and it's remarkable how different it is today where --
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>> how did it get so ugly? >> it's there owes different views people take fundamentally. if you live in a society you have fundamental beliefs in common our wouldn't do so. what i'm very uncomfortably observing is that the overlaps are not what they used to be. >> they don't have commonality. >> and there's too much of a void between people, and it's scary. >> what do you think is going to happen? >> do you think we'll go over the cliff. >> you heard what harry reid said today. >> at the end of the day i think not because this isn't going to
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be an easy solution. the president thinks he's got a mandate and house members think they have a man day, and as far as they are concerned they have to worry about the next election. >> right. >> and so i'm not all together clear at this stage exactly how much control boehner has over the overall caucus. i think at the end of the day it's going to all work out, but it's going to be a bit hairy before we get there. >> what are you expecting from the economy in 2013? be a i know a lot of this answer depend on what happens with the fiscal cliff, but what's your expecting a deal by year end? what do you think the economy is
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like in 2013? >> i think the real problems of 20 flown have nothing to do with -- there ea deep seeded split. i look at gdp not so much in terms of investment and the like. i look at it namely in this context, what the average life expectancies of the types of things that we produce are. for those goods and services which take -- which last for less than 20 years, the economy isn't doing all that badly. if i had to put an unemployment number on it, 5.9% to 6.1. >> in 2013, wow. >> yeah. the only problem is that that's only part of the economy. the other part is the 8% to 10% with life expect as i over 20
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years. that's mainly buildings and structures and when you bring them together that's the 4 percentage points of gdp and the unemployment rate we've seen here. if you dig beeper into the data is to find where it is it's essentially in structures for businesses and in residential buildings, and in structures for building you can see it's the direct consequence of an extraordinary hi high rate of discount for very distant assets. businesses don't want to touch anything that far out and they haven't a clue what it's going to look like. >> it's real been the federal reserve to provide the stimulus for this economy, to give the economy a boost. are you expecting even more still lawes luce? >> i don't think that the federal reserve stimulus is the issue here? >> okay. >> i think the issue here is an
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extraordinary and having trrkd -- the way they did it was to say what's the expected rate of return on a particular project and if it's 20%, that's great, but let's ask the second question. what is the dispersion of those calculations? if it turns out that that 20% on average represents partially 10% loss or 40% gain, that p will be rejected, and what we're look at at this stage is a very as a matter of fact uncertainty and it's reflected in the fact that the spread between say the 30-year u.s. treasure yelled
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which brings up the short-term stuff. that got to the widest level in american history. >> let me ask you about monetary policy. is there a down side to what the fed is doing saying the fed is basically bailing out the white house, we need fiscal policy and tax structure chamber of commerce? do you think there's a conflict here. i've not commented on fed policy since i got out of the polly. whoever the fed is doing it's not in my judgment having a minimum wage or effect. they have created a very large ball cheat that's ended up as reserves -- assets out of all the commercial banks and savings banks and that's not being
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rele relent. and if it hadn't do relent, there will be consequences. >> how serious is the threat of moving rates higher quickly? you and i ask talked about this in the past. once this cycle changes it can really change fast and create a market disruption. how much of a risk is that right now? >> a very large risk. you don't get markets turning gradually. they don't give you advance notice. >> right. >> and i've been through innumerable cases when things looked extraordinary ily sangui until it wasn't. i mean, look for call.
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most everybody forecast 2009. when the fed's model was working in that direction, imf, jpmorgan, a whole series of major financial institutions nobody got it right, and the reason they didn't is one of the necessary conditions for a crises of that sort to emerge is a very large proportion of the market participants don't expect it to happen. >> that's the issue. >> if they did, they arbitrage it away for which there are many examples. >> and can i say the same thing about the fiscal cliff dooep deal. the market is not expecting that we don't -- that we will -- they are expecting that we'll get a deal built end of the year. if we don't get a deal, that's huge room for disappointment. >> no doubt there will be significant implications if we don't get a deal. >> real quick on housing, has it
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bottomed? the only area in the economy that's goefg on os its own. as that comes down prize move up and equity and homes move up. you get a very dramatic drop in mortgages which are underwater because of the equity getting pulled up and you begin to see prices move. the last data we, have unfortunately, is only october. it's tilting up significantly, and so i think that housing will come back, but, remember, one final thing. they have come down so sharply that we are confused sometimes by seeing very large percentage increases. you know, you go from 100 down to 2 and you go from 2 to 3, it's a 50% gain.
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>> a very important point to make. >> always wonderful talking with you. appreciate it. looking at the white house. we'll take a short break and the latest developments on the fiscal cliff coming after this break and how is corporate america bracing for the cliff? one of the most powerful women in business is here. dupont's ceo ellen coleman joins me. stay with us. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles
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welcome back. not a bad day on wall street. investors encouraged by all the fiscal cliff talk they had. highlights of the day. >> hi, maria. it was a little bit gloomy and a little bit surreal here in washington. let me bring you the gloomy part as comments from republican and democratic leaders seemed to indicate that we're maybe nowheresville in terms of negotiations on a fiscal cliff deal. take a listen. >> until we hear something from the republicans there's nothing to drafrt, so we can get things done quickly. i think it's going to be extremely difficult to get it before christmas but it done. be >> we're still waiting for the white house to identify what spending cuts the president is willing to make as part of the
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balanced approach that he promised the american people. >> and then there was this moment here at the white house at the press briefing where press secretary jay carney was pressed by reporters to say what it was that speaker boehner and the president were talking about during their meeting here at the white house on sunday. the reporters wanted to know if the specifics being discussion skused in that conversation are separate from the specifics being offered in the public dialogue. take a listen to what jay carney said. >> i'm trying to be incredibly opaque about the distinction. look. >> it's working. >> it's working. >> so at least he's man enough to admit he doesn't want to give us the answer to the question, and the question is what's going on in these negotiations, and maria, a little bit like a blind man with an elephant. know something is happening and can feel bit and pieces but no idea of what the total scope is other than talks continue and
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both sides are use the same talking point saying the lines of communications are open. >> what a day. let's break down how the markets reacted to all the fiscal cliff talk and jackie d'angelis with that angle. >> the trading day started with optimism that budget negotiations were on track and that the economy could avoid going over the so-called fiscal cliff. strength in tech stocks helped the markets early on in the session and apple saw soiled gains on reports of record sales at fox con and gave those back and markets paeced mid-morning. the house speaker john boehner made those comments and took the steam out of markets and then just before 2:30, the dow, the nasdaq and s&p all started to slide after senator harry reid's comment that it would be extremely difficult to get fiscal cliff legislation through the senate before economist mass. the markets settled higher and all three averages moving above the 50-day averages for the
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first time. >> if he doesn't feel we'll get a deal before christmas, what about before the end of the year? did you month's smars doubled under the leadership of el men coleman. global economic unserbs and a $1 billion stock buyback. we'll tell you what you need to know. back in a moment. s the potential for making or losing money can pop up anytime. that's why she trades with the leader in mobile trading. so she's always ready to take action, no matter how wily... or weird... or wonderfully the market's behaving... which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. governor of getting it done.
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i'm the chairman and president of badger meter. we're the largest maker of water meters in north america. the fiscal cliff is scary and should be scary, another recession, higher unemployment and economic slowdown. tax money taken out of the economy. those are major concerns. we'll have to react as business, and it could react in cutbacks. the fiscal cliff was meant to be something nobody wanted to go another and here we are about to go off it. we really need our elected officials to figure this out and come up with a reasonable compromise that keeps our economy growing and gives us certainty about the future so that we can make our plans as business leaders. >> welcome back to the special edition of the "closing bell." dupont stock on the move. 1.5% higher in the after-hours trading session coming on the heels of the news that the
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chemical giant will issue a $1 billion buyback program and updating its 2012 guidance to the top of the range. chairman and ceo ellen coleman joins me now in a cnbc exclusive. thanks for joining us. >> great to see you as well. >> let me start with the announcement on the share buyback. all we talk about is the idea that taxes are probably going to go higher. you've got dividend taxes probably going to go higher in 2013 as well as capital gains taxes. what motivated a buyback versus a -- a larger dividend or a special dividend as we've been hearing from so many companies today trying to get ahead of tax changes? why the buyback in. >> if the first quarter of 2013 we'll receive $4 billion of after-tax divestiture and that $4 billion is what we're talking about. 1 billion of it will go to a share repurchase. i've got great confidence in our
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company and our strategies. i believe our shares are undervalued and the value will be to strengthen our before. let mow get your talk what you're seeing in today's economy, raised the guidance in terms of earnings guidance for 2012. what's behind that? >> we've seen coming through the third quarter, continued strength in our agriculture market and food ingredients and industrial biosciences and see some progression there. things in china are settling out with the trance in addition that leadership and we see sequentialal improvement there. as we go into '13, we see a very strong story for did you possibility. we see strength in agriculture, nutrition, advanced materials,
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industrial biosciences. those businesses' earnings will be up in the high teens here year over year. that will be overshadowed by a cyclical business. our performance chemical segments, going to lose six to seven points of margin in 2013 versus 2012, so when you add it all up, we believe next year we'll see low to mid single digit earnings improvement. >> does any of this include expectations about the fiscal cliff? i mean, if we go over the fiscal cliff and don't have a debt deal by year end, what you will to cut jobs? what's the impact on dupont if we don't get a resolution in time in. >> it's hard to predict because it's hard to know. i do think if there's an issue and we don't avert a cliff i think we as a country will react quickly. i criit will have an impact. i along with many of my peers
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have been advocating very strongly to rise above the issues and take a balanced aprove. we understand that spending has to be kur mild and the issue is the debt in this country, an issue we have to handle. >> handling that debt includes spending cuts as well as changes in the tax code. what would you like to sigh? what would make the most sense as a corporate executive running one of the most important companies in the world, what would make sense on the tax structure changes that you're debating right now on your standpoint? >> we have a very complex tax code in this country for corporations as well as individuals, and for corporations we need taxes in this country to be more on a coordinated basis with our trading partners. we're a global company and do business in 70 different countries around the world, and we need that coordination to provide certainty to provide where our taxes are and what we
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need to do, and i think this country will get back to more stability from be a economic standpoint. >> a simpler tax code and also perhaps the tax that double taxes corporations that have money overseas. you'd like to see some thank change there. >> you have to understand, global companies, we develop products. we at dupont are a very large exporter from the united states and we do sell in many countries around the world. those tax codes need to be in -- in concert with each other. >> sure. >> order to be able to really affect companies like ours in the united states. >> makes a lot of sense. ellen, good to have you on the program. >> great, thank you very much, maria. >> ellen kullman joining us. ben bernanke grabbing the spotlight on wall street tomorrow. he's expected to announce additional treasury buying. our panel next telling us how that will impact your money. back in a moment. [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again. time for citi price rewind. because your daughter really wants that pink castle thing.
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welcome back. we have breaking news on the fiscal cliff negotiations. eamon? >> we have a statement from john boehner's office. they're saying that they have made a counter proposal now to
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the white house. let me read you the statement. they say, we sent the white house a counter offer that would achieve tax and entitlement reform to solve our looming debt crisis and create more american jobs. this from the speaker's office. they are also saying that their offer now today was in response to a new offer from the white house. we know that the ap is also reporting that at least partial offers have been exchanged between the two sides over the past two days. so, clearly, what we know here is that paper is changing hands and the deal making is actually happening right now. what we don't know is what the content of that deal is. and speaker's office telling me right now that they're not going to be able to provide any detail on what was in that counter offer, so, behind the scenes, the mystery continues here. >> so, again, we're not necessarily zeroing in on exactly where that revenue comes from, we don't know if it's higher taxes or just, you know, getting rid of loopholes and we don't know where the spending cuts are coming from but we know it has to do with entitlements. >> we know there's a poker game going on. we don't know how many chips are on the table at this point. but we know that they're playing the game.
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>> eamon, thank you. we'll be watching that. up next, my observation on what it will take to make real progress on these fiscal cliff talks. we're back in a moment. again? it's embarrassing it's embarrassing! we can see you carl. we can totally see you. come on you're better than this...all that prowling around. yeah, you're the king of the jungle. have you thought about going vegan carl? hahaha!! you know folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than antelope with night-vision goggles. nice! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. it's a new day.
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and finally today, my observation on the latest wrangling in the negotiations to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. well, you have to wonder what it will take to make real progress. today was truly a day from kindergarten. we had a front row seat here in washington. remember as a child when you would not budge when your friend budged? today, the republicans attacked the decks for not putting any spending cuts on the table, as they push for higher taxes on the highest earners. many democrats say, we can deal with spending cuts later. just raise taxes on the upper income now to avoid going over the fiscal cliff. this, of course, kicks the can down the road. the republicans say no deal if spending cuts are not agreed upon, along with new revenue right now. not later. but now, the next salvo, democrats now are saying that they won't put any spending cut proposals out there, they want to first hear what cuts the republicans want first. i guess so that they can use that against them in the public forum. we'll remember the infamous granny over the cliff ad after
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paul ryan floated his budget. so, what is the end game here? what if john boehner doesn't blink? we now have less than three weeks before the new year. i have said it before -- i am not expecting a deal. it seems even the prospect of missed vacations for our law makers, something we already know they hold sacred, may not be enough to bring real compromise. and what about the markets? well, here's the scary part. clearly the markets are looking for a deal. look at today's nice rally. they are trading as if we will get a deal and it might only be when wall street starts to doubt that the ball will be moved. because, market forces will force their hand. if common sense does not prevail first. it's just a question of when. we, of course, will watching. before we go, take a look at the day on wall street. not bad. in fact, pretty good gains though the market did end off of the best levels of the afternoon. up 78 points on the dow jones industry level. 13,248. s&p 500, picked up at nine and a quarter points. tech


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